I’m not trying to doom, but we should all temper expectations on what happens next. What is incorrectly being reported is that Lake will get to argue the signature verification issue. But that is skipping over what would have to happen in the meantime to get her there.
If you read the order of the AZ SC, they remand it back to the trial court saying this:
“IT IS FURTHER ORDERED remanding to the trial court to determine whether the claim that Maricopa County failed to comply with A.R.S. § 16-550(A) fails to state a claim pursuant to Ariz. R. Civ. P. 12(b)(6) for reasons other than laches, or, whether Petitioner can prove her claim as alleged pursuant to A.R.S. § 16-672 and establish that “votes [were] affected ‘in sufficient numbers to alter the outcome of the election’” based on a “competent mathematical basis to conclude that the outcome would plausibly have been different, not simply an untethered assertion of uncertainty.” (Opinion ¶ 11.) “
So for those wondering what the italics portion means, the trial court has a chance to find another way to dismiss this without hearing it. There are a number of specious grounds the judge could boot it.
I’ll revisit the statutes on this issue after I get some rest. But I have a suspicion that this will boil down to the witnesses. What do the whistleblowers say and what does the county say. And that is easy for a judge to simply write that he thought the county was more credible. That cannot be appealed.
It is more than just "reported," Are you saying that Lindell and Lake's claims to the contrary are incorrect in their assertion that signature verification will need to be done on > 100000 cast votesin question?
The problem is that the election contest statute provides for inspection of ballots. It says nothing about signatures. I don’t remember if it was in this specific case or in Hamadeh’s case, but the judge wouldn’t allow a look at ballot envelopes because the envelope is not a ballot and the ballot was what was in the statute.
The AZ legislature did not ever contemplate this level of egregious bullshit happening in elections. Otherwise they would have revised the contest statute to make it actually possible to successfully challenge an election. As it sits now, the process for contesting rigged elections is itself rigged.
I do not know how they are going to actually look at and compare the signatures. One has to remember that the elections contest statute is a special proceeding. It is not like other civil causes of action. It is far more limited in scope, and accelerated in time. There is little to no discovery, no depositions of witnesses, and generally rigged in favor of the election board.
Obviously this is highly problematic. These cases are radioactive for the judiciary. They don’t want them on the docket. You’re not going to find a judge who is going to defy a statute in this circumstance only to inevitably get reversed by a higher court. That’s sticking your neck out for no gain.
From the understanding that this is on an accelerated timeline as a contest, how much time would it take to do this analysis? Didn’t Dr. Shiva’s signature protocol still take a few months? I don’t see the judge allowing 30-60 days or more to accomplish this. I’d also bet that Marc Elias files for an injunction in federal court for “disenfranchising” people. Given how this case has played out so far, it wouldn’t surprise me that the petition for injunctive relief lands with the same cucked judge that sanctioned Lake for her pre-election case.
Again, I don’t want to doom. But reality is reality. This is what we are up against. I’ve yet to find a way for this to occur.
The AZ court system is not the last redress available, and elctions in AZ at the governor's level have been challenged and overturned in the past. The path is difficult but not unassailable or impossible.
The 2020-2022 time frame was a learning process for us and folks like Shiva laid down a pathway for verification that does not have to be re-invented. In 2020 we did not have the tech at our fingertips like we do now. The reason 100000 sigs are in question is becuase they have already been vetted and found wanting.
If you think Lake and Lindell are spreading falsehood by emphasizing the importance of this ruling paticualrly where signature verification is involved, I challenge you here and now to say so bluntly.
Since they are the one's who have invested the millions in prosecuting this case and they contiue to be hopeful about the ultimate outcome, I choose to believe that they have more insight than either of us, and have sound reason to believe as they do. They have visibility to information that neither you nor I have, and I choose to share their optimism rather than your doom.
The AZ court system is not the last redress available, and elctions in AZ at the governor's level have been challenged and overturned in the past. The path is difficult but not unassailable or impossible.
I never commented on what the last redress available is. I never said they’ve not overturned an election before
The reason 100000 sigs are in question is becuase they have already been vetted and found wanting.
Not true. Anything she posted was from 2020. Take that to the bank. That was all from a hearing in the legislature about 2020. Only the cucked county has possession of the 2022 sigs and they will not turn them over. Nobody but the county has seen these since the election.
If you think Lake and Lindell are spreading falsehood by emphasizing the importance of this ruling paticualrly where signature verification is involved, I challenge you here and now to say so bluntly.
If you didn’t have the reading comprehension of a goldfish, you’d see where I pointed out that they don’t just get to jump in and do this. The AZ Supreme Court order remanded it back to the district court to either find another reason to kick this case besides laches (of which there are many specious grounds) or to hear the case about the signatures. Who do you believe on this - the AZ Supreme Court who wrote and signed the order? Or Mike Lindell and Kari Lake? You think a district court judge who booted it the first time and invented his own evidentiary standard for the rest of the case and imposed an absent from the statute mens rea for their actions is going to be like “oh gee, guess I should get on with the signatures…” instead of booting it??
Since they are the one's who have invested the millions in prosecuting this case and they contiue to be hopeful about the ultimate outcome, I choose to believe that they have more insight than either of us, and have sound reason to believe as they do. They have visibility to information that neither you nor I have, and I choose to share their optimism rather than your doom.
Like on election night when Kari Lake wasn’t worried and she had the votes? And how she wasn’t worried in the 400 days afterwards that they counted Hobbs into victory? When hasn’t she been optimistic? When has Lindell not been optimistic? And what has Lindell won besides being a staunch supporter?
List of major hurdles:
not getting kicked again for failing to state a claim on other specious grounds
election contest rules do not provide for examining ballot envelopes - the judge cannot simply decide it does; that would immediately get thrown out on appeal.
without envelopes there can be no “conclusive and mathematically sound” basis to call the outcome into question, as required by the AZ Supreme Court’s order. It is pure speculation.
reviewing the actual signatures would take substantially more time than permitted in an election contest
You can completely ignore everything I said and I don’t care. If you want to live in magic world of cope, rainbows and unicorns, have at it; I hear there is a pot of gold if you can get to the end of the rainbow. However, I choose to live in reality. If you want to have a real debate about what I said, calling me a doomer and saying that you believe Lake and Lindell over me is about the most lacking in substance “debate” I have had on this board. Neither of those 2 have addressed what I have said, and I stand by it.
TL/DR: You think Lake and Lindell are blowing smoke and you think you know more than they do. Your opinion would have more weight if you actually had $$skin$$ in this game.
Lindell is clear that if this fails at the State level they will take it to the USSC. I would actually welcome that in order to set national corrective precedents that could force a paper ballots only system in the end.
If it fails at the USSC, you are free to doom. Until then, domming is your cup to savor alone.
More cope, rainbows, and unicorns from you. Facts apparently don’t matter. Just personalities and how much money they put into something. Never mind that everything I said is correct. You attempt to rebut my observation with frivolous and weightless personality/money arguments. And “secret information” not filed in any court case…that’s a first one for me. Never had an adult go full make believe mode on me before.
Your arrogance assumes YOU have all the facts and insights. You don't, nor do I. I asked a simple question and you replied with one of the longer intellectual flatulations uttered on these boards in a while. At this time I choose to believe Lindell, Lake, and Trump and their representations on this issue, in part because I believe they know more than I do, and far more than pathological doomers like you do.
For some reason you are transfixed with those rubber unicorns and plastic rainbows dangling above your head in your crib, as you wallow around in a pile of self-important fetid musings of you own making. In the end It appears that you are merely a pedestrian know-it-all style doomer in need of diaper change.
Surely the public at large can see the left are the tyrants at this point. Think how they want or be arrested. Nobody can cry "foul" when their criminal incumbents go to jail, now that they've gone around trying to imprison all their opponents over non-crimes
General election for Arizona Secretary of State
Adrian Fontes defeated Mark Finchem in the general election for Arizona Secretary of State on November 8, 2022.
When initial election results were released, Mayes had a narrow 511-vote lead over Hamadeh, but after the recount, that lead shrunk to a razor-thin margin of 280 votes out of some 2.6 million ballots that were cast in November.
That absolute iceberg of Az corruption involving Sinaloa and money laundering and election manipulation. The criminals have a lot at stake. If enough corrupt people get busted the Az election really could get overturned. Hang in there, Kari!!
As much as I respect Ms. Lake, She needs to prove she can back up what she says when elected.
She agrees with me on that point.
She is not the first American patriot to be jailed.
Being jailed means nothing with no record behind it.
Looks like we have a female version of DJT.
...indeed....
That’s what I was thinking!
Hmmm Kari is behind Hobbs by how many votes? 17,000 you say? Interesting
...doggy winks...
Don't mess with her.
...valid observation....
Kari Lake earning her strips. She has got the shape of Presidential Timber.
First female president, one we deserve!
...she is a fighter....
What does a dog do when it's scared? It tries to bite. Dems are trying to bite the wrong chick. She bites back!
...absolute ironclad truth....
well, if they could arrest Trump they could arrest any- oh, wait
...howls...
Tired , old moldy playbook. Steadfastness !
...the lack of originality within the Dark State is comically apparent....
...the sad aside of this, is that because of the stupidity of the masses....
...most of it is effective nonetheless....
...doggy sighs....
And as we know and have always known - you can’t fix stupid—- we can only work around it the best we can...
Agree, as of late. Steadfastness has been something they didn't take into account in their playbook. James 1:1-15
...and the internet....
Evil can't create
...valid observation...
I’m not trying to doom, but we should all temper expectations on what happens next. What is incorrectly being reported is that Lake will get to argue the signature verification issue. But that is skipping over what would have to happen in the meantime to get her there.
If you read the order of the AZ SC, they remand it back to the trial court saying this:
“IT IS FURTHER ORDERED remanding to the trial court to determine whether the claim that Maricopa County failed to comply with A.R.S. § 16-550(A) fails to state a claim pursuant to Ariz. R. Civ. P. 12(b)(6) for reasons other than laches, or, whether Petitioner can prove her claim as alleged pursuant to A.R.S. § 16-672 and establish that “votes [were] affected ‘in sufficient numbers to alter the outcome of the election’” based on a “competent mathematical basis to conclude that the outcome would plausibly have been different, not simply an untethered assertion of uncertainty.” (Opinion ¶ 11.) “
So for those wondering what the italics portion means, the trial court has a chance to find another way to dismiss this without hearing it. There are a number of specious grounds the judge could boot it.
I’ll revisit the statutes on this issue after I get some rest. But I have a suspicion that this will boil down to the witnesses. What do the whistleblowers say and what does the county say. And that is easy for a judge to simply write that he thought the county was more credible. That cannot be appealed.
It is more than just "reported," Are you saying that Lindell and Lake's claims to the contrary are incorrect in their assertion that signature verification will need to be done on > 100000 cast votesin question?
The problem is that the election contest statute provides for inspection of ballots. It says nothing about signatures. I don’t remember if it was in this specific case or in Hamadeh’s case, but the judge wouldn’t allow a look at ballot envelopes because the envelope is not a ballot and the ballot was what was in the statute.
The AZ legislature did not ever contemplate this level of egregious bullshit happening in elections. Otherwise they would have revised the contest statute to make it actually possible to successfully challenge an election. As it sits now, the process for contesting rigged elections is itself rigged.
I do not know how they are going to actually look at and compare the signatures. One has to remember that the elections contest statute is a special proceeding. It is not like other civil causes of action. It is far more limited in scope, and accelerated in time. There is little to no discovery, no depositions of witnesses, and generally rigged in favor of the election board.
Obviously this is highly problematic. These cases are radioactive for the judiciary. They don’t want them on the docket. You’re not going to find a judge who is going to defy a statute in this circumstance only to inevitably get reversed by a higher court. That’s sticking your neck out for no gain.
From the understanding that this is on an accelerated timeline as a contest, how much time would it take to do this analysis? Didn’t Dr. Shiva’s signature protocol still take a few months? I don’t see the judge allowing 30-60 days or more to accomplish this. I’d also bet that Marc Elias files for an injunction in federal court for “disenfranchising” people. Given how this case has played out so far, it wouldn’t surprise me that the petition for injunctive relief lands with the same cucked judge that sanctioned Lake for her pre-election case.
Again, I don’t want to doom. But reality is reality. This is what we are up against. I’ve yet to find a way for this to occur.
The AZ court system is not the last redress available, and elctions in AZ at the governor's level have been challenged and overturned in the past. The path is difficult but not unassailable or impossible.
The 2020-2022 time frame was a learning process for us and folks like Shiva laid down a pathway for verification that does not have to be re-invented. In 2020 we did not have the tech at our fingertips like we do now. The reason 100000 sigs are in question is becuase they have already been vetted and found wanting.
If you think Lake and Lindell are spreading falsehood by emphasizing the importance of this ruling paticualrly where signature verification is involved, I challenge you here and now to say so bluntly.
Since they are the one's who have invested the millions in prosecuting this case and they contiue to be hopeful about the ultimate outcome, I choose to believe that they have more insight than either of us, and have sound reason to believe as they do. They have visibility to information that neither you nor I have, and I choose to share their optimism rather than your doom.
You chose not to listen to anything I said.
I never commented on what the last redress available is. I never said they’ve not overturned an election before
Not true. Anything she posted was from 2020. Take that to the bank. That was all from a hearing in the legislature about 2020. Only the cucked county has possession of the 2022 sigs and they will not turn them over. Nobody but the county has seen these since the election.
If you didn’t have the reading comprehension of a goldfish, you’d see where I pointed out that they don’t just get to jump in and do this. The AZ Supreme Court order remanded it back to the district court to either find another reason to kick this case besides laches (of which there are many specious grounds) or to hear the case about the signatures. Who do you believe on this - the AZ Supreme Court who wrote and signed the order? Or Mike Lindell and Kari Lake? You think a district court judge who booted it the first time and invented his own evidentiary standard for the rest of the case and imposed an absent from the statute mens rea for their actions is going to be like “oh gee, guess I should get on with the signatures…” instead of booting it??
Like on election night when Kari Lake wasn’t worried and she had the votes? And how she wasn’t worried in the 400 days afterwards that they counted Hobbs into victory? When hasn’t she been optimistic? When has Lindell not been optimistic? And what has Lindell won besides being a staunch supporter?
List of major hurdles:
You can completely ignore everything I said and I don’t care. If you want to live in magic world of cope, rainbows and unicorns, have at it; I hear there is a pot of gold if you can get to the end of the rainbow. However, I choose to live in reality. If you want to have a real debate about what I said, calling me a doomer and saying that you believe Lake and Lindell over me is about the most lacking in substance “debate” I have had on this board. Neither of those 2 have addressed what I have said, and I stand by it.
TL/DR: You think Lake and Lindell are blowing smoke and you think you know more than they do. Your opinion would have more weight if you actually had $$skin$$ in this game.
Lindell is clear that if this fails at the State level they will take it to the USSC. I would actually welcome that in order to set national corrective precedents that could force a paper ballots only system in the end.
If it fails at the USSC, you are free to doom. Until then, domming is your cup to savor alone.
More cope, rainbows, and unicorns from you. Facts apparently don’t matter. Just personalities and how much money they put into something. Never mind that everything I said is correct. You attempt to rebut my observation with frivolous and weightless personality/money arguments. And “secret information” not filed in any court case…that’s a first one for me. Never had an adult go full make believe mode on me before.
Your arrogance assumes YOU have all the facts and insights. You don't, nor do I. I asked a simple question and you replied with one of the longer intellectual flatulations uttered on these boards in a while. At this time I choose to believe Lindell, Lake, and Trump and their representations on this issue, in part because I believe they know more than I do, and far more than pathological doomers like you do.
For some reason you are transfixed with those rubber unicorns and plastic rainbows dangling above your head in your crib, as you wallow around in a pile of self-important fetid musings of you own making. In the end It appears that you are merely a pedestrian know-it-all style doomer in need of diaper change.
Surely the public at large can see the left are the tyrants at this point. Think how they want or be arrested. Nobody can cry "foul" when their criminal incumbents go to jail, now that they've gone around trying to imprison all their opponents over non-crimes
..."getting arrested" seems to be the cause celebre...
How close was the AG race also?
General election for Arizona Secretary of State Adrian Fontes defeated Mark Finchem in the general election for Arizona Secretary of State on November 8, 2022.
Adrian Fontes (D) 52.8 1,129,144
Mark Finchem (R) 47.2 1,011,019
150? Closest in state history?
so 30k+ would also put Hamadeh over the line but not Finchem
I understand that Finchem lost his race by a large margin (though I am skeptical about the accuracy of the count in that race also.)
Does he win if Maricopa's votes from 2022 are discounted?
...118125...
Per AZ Mirror...
That absolute iceberg of Az corruption involving Sinaloa and money laundering and election manipulation. The criminals have a lot at stake. If enough corrupt people get busted the Az election really could get overturned. Hang in there, Kari!!
...indeed...
...valid observation...
Wtf this is battle
Amen
As much as I respect Ms. Lake, She needs to prove she can back up what she says when elected. She agrees with me on that point. She is not the first American patriot to be jailed. Being jailed means nothing with no record behind it.
I wasn't aware that the Dems had scored a HUGE AZ supreme court victory?